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there are different levels to flopping and what people define as flopping

there's exaggerating contact and the hit - Lebron did this a lot
foul baiters - I don't consider this flopping but some guys are just good at getting contact and drawing fouls - AR is great at this particularly with the pull up off the dribble
complainers - whine about every call - well hello luka

these are basically purgatory IMO

then you go down a couple of levels and you get players who just act like they get fouled with no foul
feel like every player does this at some point

now you get to the seventh level of hell
Harden back in his day - grabbing defenders arm
SGA - the forearm shiver and kicking his leg
(these are offensive fouls in my book and worse just not basketball plays)

 

That wasn't you, you got hacked?

Touche on that Luka video. There were definitely some flops to the floor. And he was pretty FAT there too. I never watched him on Dallas and didn't remember any to the floor on Lakers that were fake like those. Could be wrong. I searched on AR and if he hit the floor to me it did not look that that, and was hardly at all in any video of him "drawing" fouls. Absolutely nowhere to the level SGA does all of it worse and more often, especially going to the floor as ridiculously frequently as he does.

So I'll move the goal post, as you often do and say find me the compilation tape on AR, your constant whipping boy that shows him going to the floor the ridiculous number of times and manner that SGA does. Or we can drop it. You're constantly claiming they're in the same league with SGA's "baiting" and it's not true. He's flopping around on the floor with the videos to prove it.

 

Austin doesn't flop as much as he is good at drawing fouls, two entirely different things. He is actually trying to score and get an and one. That is actually a smart play.

 

Yes thank you …. you said it very efficiently

 

This is the type of greed they talk about in the bible.

 

Jordan did the forearm shiver thing a lot too. That pushoff to close out Utah was epic. Guys are always looking for an edge. Luka whines a lot, SGA flops a lot. Both are good at gaming the system. If Luka was still in Dallas, I'd be roasting him equally with SGA. However he wears my colors so...kudos to him for knowing the rules of engagement and applying them to his advantage. Same to SGA.

 

Nah man just play “reasonably” the right way. No fake jerking your head back and grabbing your mouth when the replay shows zero contact was made and stop falling on the floor every time you shoot.

 

Yes all three players foul bait. Of the 3 Luka and Shai flops way more often trying to trick the refs and sell fouls. meaning you cant come within a inch of them to play ethical defense. That is why i put () around AR since his is more legit fouls. he just put the defender in a bad position. Luka on the other hand leans into players. Throws up his arm flops and doing extra to draw fouls. These unlike AR can be none calls.

I dont think you realize how bad it got last season. this is one of the reasons no one viewed them as a true contender last season. They were to reliant on getting to the free throw line. No one expected them to get those soft calls playing an extremely soft brand of basketball in the playoffs foul baiting all game long and complaining. Either way Flopping still falls under the foul baiting umbrella.

 

I actually agree with this. I was a soccer referee for a long time and always had a style where I'd not sanction fouls promoted by the attacker. Maybe in basketball it's different, so tell me if so for the guys here more involved in the sport.

I don't agree with many fouls sanctioned in the NBA. Fouls in sport were created to protect the attacker when he's doing an offensive move and the defender denies him that opportunity using an illegal action. This is the concept.

So based on that, if a guy fakes a shot and them jump laterally, completely off balanced just so the defender touches him and he throws the ball in the air like he was shooting the ball, that's not a foul. It's not a natural action. You never shoot like that. Sometimes they go opposite to the basket, to the off hand, all off balanced, etc etc. That's not a genuine attempt. They just go toward the defender. That's not a foul for me.
A lot of guys do it but for me, if it's the attacker going towards the defender because he is mid air, the contact only exists because the attacker promotes it, is not a foul. If the defender wasn't there, he would never shoot that way, hence not a foul.

Same with getting in front of a defender and then stopping. In soccer happens a lot too. This one is more tricky. But the contact happens because there's an odd action by the attacker (stopping) which promotes the contact. Defender did not promote the contact, most of the times they can't literally do nothing to avoid it. How's that a foul? Brunson and CP3 do this one a ton.

In soccer, after the World Cup and already happening in European competitive games there was a switch in the foul calling towards this. If it's the offensive guy promoting or seeking the contact, it's not a foul. Games became much better, more fluid and players stopped seeking these fouls quite quickly.

I see the same happening in the NBA. One of the challenges of the league is the length of the game. Each FT trip is 1-2 minutes with the clock stopped, games are too long for younger viewers. A way to address that is foul calling and this would definitely be a good step in that direction.

 

They try to protect the plyers in an 82 game season to then allow a more physical game in the playoffs but they still need to address some of the BS. At no point a player on offense should be allowed to invade a defenders space. Even if that player jumps he should be allowed to land. Not because you jump should mean the offensive player can bump into you to create contact. These can be easy fix the make the games a less frustrating watch. As for the stoppage i think they want those moments. $$$ advertisements. A few less stoppage wont hurt however.

 

They should just do like soccer. Replay it. And if it shows you fouled and initiated the contact. You get a technical foul. Just like a red card. You get two flops two technicals. You’re out the game. It’s an ejection.

the technical fouls flops. Are grabbing a players arm to lock in for the flop. Or Shai falling and grabbing players to the ground.

 

Idk bro..I think if we were 9-1 instead of 1-9 in our last 10 games against OKC...this wouldn't be such a hot topic around here.

I thought the refs let the teams play more physical in the playoffs. If they ref like that in the regular season, that kind of stuff will diminish. The offensive guys will cry about it, but after handing out some techs and a few ejections, they will adjust. The League tilted a bit too far towards the offense imo.

 

I like this you get a cleaner more ethical enjoyable product. right now the officiating is all over the place with way to many questionable calls. The games are less fun when it seems like the refs are manipulating the outcome. One team shoots 15 fts the other 40 half of which are bogus calls.

 

If the game is officiated correctly…Luka will still lead the league in scoring. Cry about it.

 

Its nuts at times. Defenders literally be running away from the offensive player at times to avoid being call for a bogus foul.

 

Any player that attempts the most shots per game and shots a respected % form 3 should be in running. Luka, J Brown and Maxey were the top 3. With those 2 on the same team now i expeact the top 3 to shift. Luka i think will repeat at # 1

 

They won’t ever fix officiating totally.

If they called things fairly, Luka would get a ton of free throws, the reason he hunts them is because they don’t get called fairly. How do you stop a 6’8 guy that’s as strong as a bull that can decelerate on a dime, with elite shooting and elite passing. You can’t, so you foul him and the refs can’t call every foul.

Same with Shaq and Lebron etc.

 

this was my point. he gets fouled a lot without calls. hence the complaining. finding a compilation of six plays doesn't change that. he scores a ton because you can't stop him from scoring. he gets doubled at half court because you can't stop him from scoring. he makes jaden mcdaniels look like he wants to cry. painting some other picture, particularly on a lakers site, is weird and weak sauce.