LABron James Discussion: The Final Year?

I'm not debating Bill's athletic ability. I'm debating the competition he went up against that made him much better than if he were say, going up against Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, etc., We can't pretend that Bill would have had nearly the same amount of success.

As for KAJ, I didn't mention AD+Wade being LeBron's support system because in those three rings, LeBron was by far, the best player on the team. KAJ was not the focal point for the Showtime Lakers for three of those rings. LeBron, in every single one of those rings, was the best player. KAJ, was not.

 

The issue with KAJ's case is that Magic was clearly the best player on the Lakers for at a minimum of 3 of the Laker title teams.

I like the competition argument: it's the one knock on Jordan as he never beat any team that would be considered a super team (he never beat Showtime, Bird C's, or the Bad bays and none of his finals or ECF teams were nearly as good as GS, Garnet C Bags, Kobe/Pau, or the most underrated team of all time maybe the last SAS spurs title team). I mean that Spurs team had Duncan who was still upper echolon All star, Ginobili, Parker, and a young Kawhii along with a bunch of good roleplayers. You compare that to that Utah team and it's no contest: who is Hornacek, Bryon Russell, etc scaring? Those guys were the equivalent of Danny Green who maybe was the 5th or 6th best player on the Spurs squad

 

For years, Jordan fanboys have found weaknesses in Kobe and then Bron's games by playing dirty and pointing out all their negatives.

What I am finding interesting is that for the first time, LeBron fanboys are biting back and proving Jordan wasn't perfect. Jordan fan boys seem rattled by the criticism, but hey, you were doing it to Kobe and Bron fans for years.

 

In 85, Magic was playing more minutes and had better advanced stats (both PER, Box Score +/-). Hard to say he's wasn't the guy when in both the regular season and playoffs he played more minutes and had better or equivalent per possession numbers.

Felt that team was Magic's by then and the style of play was clearly build around him.

 

I agree about the FInals, he won the Finals MVP for a reason but across the season it really felt that was Magic's team by then. The team was built around Magic by then Scott and Worthy on opposite of Magic attacking on the break over and over again.

 

LeBron could play as long as he likes, so long as he doesn't mind one day not being a top 5, and then top 10, player in the league.

 

At what point will this GOAT discussion die? Who gives a freakin (bleep).

 

Fans only give a s*** because they are mindless, media controlled idiots who keep watching Skip Bayless and d***nose Wright all day and week. Who gives a (bleep). We will NEVER KNOW who is the greatest.

Different eras, different rules, different circumstances. If Lebron had been drafted by the Lakers, he would likely have 8 championships right now because the Lakers would have fed him all the good players to him because people want to play in LA. No one wanted to go to Cleveland and he got stuck for 7 years dragging trash.

 

it's weird because the theory is that jordan was the platonic ideal or something--that someone with strengths in other areas but weaknesses where jordan was strong couldn't be considered as equal or better. i mean, if greatness is defined by efficient isolation scoring against non-zone defenses by a perimeter player...then sure, jordan wins, hands down. but is this how we want to play the game.

i think jordan was an absolute icon. watching him play was incredible and unique. but magic had that, kobe had that, kaj had it, lebron has it, wilt had it...partisan fans would say many others, too.

i guess i don't see why his ghost has to haunt everything. appreciate greatness in the form that's in front of you.

 

Jordan is the GOAT because he never failed in the big stage and he won more. That's it. Had he went 5-1 in the finals, his legend wouldnt be as big. And MJ always seemed to make a play at the end to win. His theater is unmatched.

Plus the guy won 10 scoring titles, 5 mvps, DOPY, etc etc.

Had Kobe won in 2004 and 2008, he would be the GOAT right now. If Lebron had won in 2011, 2014, he would be the GOAT. Those are two years he should have won, no excuses. So, that's why these dumb discussions keep coming up.

 

To me the two MJ's (Jordan and Jackson) are impossible to eclipse. They're just too iconic.

 

The issue with the GOAT debate is that titles are used as the measure/goal posts.

But when Bill Russell has more titles than Jordan, he is excluded because of his numbers. And Kareem (who has 6) is dismissed because he didn’t win enough Finals MVPs, as it became Magic’s team.

Basically the GOAT debate goal posts always change to favour Jordan for each comparison because for everybody else, they will then say “but Jordan has more championships,” and for those who equal or better Jordan on rings, the goal posts change again to compare stats or accolades.

Simply looking at the numbers and physical domination, I believe that NOBODY could do what Wilt Chamberlain could do on a basketball court.

 

You took that quote out of context.

 

Bill Russell played with 4 Top 50 players. In an era where their were 9 teams at most in his career. Competition was a little different.