Austin Reaves Discussion: How Much Is He Worth?

brother, I usually enjoy your posts, I have nothing against you, and I hope we can move past this small disagreement, but I think you're being a bit fundamentalist in this Reaves subject.

we were discussing Reaves potential trade value if we choose to trade him this year (unlikely) or next year (more likely). I think that's a perfectly legitimate discussion to have.

 

You’re just proving my statement.
Discredt, dismiss and belittle dissenting opinions .Classic echo chamber behavior.I only started using this term when the name calling started.Some poster had a massive crash out on me and for what? Because my opinions are different? Almost everyone here opposes my opinions do you see me crashing out or start name calling
You guys don’t agree with what I say so what and move on.Some of the posters here don’t afford opposing views the same luxury. Start with the name calling and belittling and discrediting that’s why I say echo chamber

 

Have you ever used CraftedNBA metrics? If so what do you think about it?

 

no, but i just checked it out, and it works similarly to the one i posted, just using some different stats.

i just like the LEBRON stat, tbh, and i'm not as familiar with some of the advanced metrics on the crafted site.

the reason i like the LEBRON stats is that they're omnibus and thus quickly digestible, and they try to account for the contextual factors that matter most to me (who are you playing with, who's other team playing at those times, and how's your team doing) in addition to the more traditional statistical impact (pts, rebs, asts, stls, blks, fg%) that say, slick, prefers.

they're not at all perfect, and the biggest flaw, imo, is that really good (or bad) coaching/strategy can impact these quite a bit. the good news is that coaching variance isn't THAT big in the nba, but if you get a doug christie or an erik spoelstra, players can look much worse or much better than they probably are.

 

I like the compare player feature. The overlay grid on offense/defense play making and impact is excellent in my opinion.also the shooting chart is good information.BBI is more comprehensive I believe though

 

you should bring those out sometimes! i probably annoy people with my LEBRON charts, but they help me think differently about some things sometimes.

in the case of reaves, they indicate defensive improvement over time that i think is real and matters and makes it to where i don't actually equate him on that end with guys like young and brunson, much less cam thomas/coby white types.

 

Austin has a high basketball IQ which helps him in anticipation on defense but he just can’t hold his position on guys.He certainly is willing just don’t know if he will be capable.
The video I posted of him looking bad actually ended up a compliment by the host. He said he would bet that AR would figure out the strategy he needs to use against the OKC’s of the NBA.Also said he’s worth every penny he is going to get and brought up Murray,Fox and others as to why

 

i think we just have too many guys who need protection on defense. lebron, luka, and reaves are all solid defenders, but you'd really prefer to have two of them and three guys who are really good on defense and allow you to cover up their weaknesses schematically.

denver's an example, and they really did it with two, tbh: gordon and kcp. IF we're rolling with luka/lebron/reaves next year, ideally, you get the center version of gordon (is that jalen duren?), and a kcp type (this one's trickier right now and why i've liked ellis, who's a cheaper/smaller version).

and then, tbh, you want to stagger your minutes so just two of the three main guys are on the floor for most of the game. the trick there is also that all the bench guys need to be plus defenders, imo.

 

Duren would be in the top of my big board( if there’s even a slight chance that he would consider leaving Detroit). His offensive lapses wouldn’t harm us as much because of Austin, Luka, LeBron and Rui.
I still find it hard to believe that Watson is a serious target because Denver knows it would cut them twice if he signed with us plus the added fact that Rob has yet to gamble on any RFA.
I would be more than happy with adding Duren and Ellis(or an Ellis type of wing).

 

If you're willing to listen I would like to put this to rest with us and explain what I was having the issue about with the two videos. It's NOT that I have a problem with someone else having a different opinion about him. (unless as happened with one person no longer here it is constant bit***** about something that is a fact and choice of the front office and none of us can do anything about anyway, and that stance is well know. Like the guy who just wouldn't drop it last season with his anti Redick and Lebron rants) Nor that I can't also see AR's struggles against the best defensive teams in the playoffs. Or that he's not an above average defender that we need to put on the best guards POA we face. Exaggeration or lazy parroting that he plays poor defense and is just a one side player I'll push back on.

Abeer put up an article that the guy had done some research on, on all of the guards in the playoffs who were attempting to get into the paint to make plays and to score at the rim. I couldn't understand the graphics he was using, only that it was apparent that for quantity of times that was actually achieved vs the other players up to that point, he was right near the top with one or maybe two other players. And then explained the importance and showed like 6 successful times he'd done it in the limited amount of games he had played against Houston and OKC to that point after missing the first 3 against the Rockets. Words have meaning and are important to me in differences of opinions here and I can certainly be persuaded, and have been numerous times to adjust my view on things. Rather though, than saying (yes we all know its important but he's having a very hard time doing it (against the best, and grabbing allowed by refs, defense in the league with OKC and elite long Azur Thompsen and others on Houston) it was, "So he needs to get to the paint to be efficient but can’t get to the paint because he can’t beat his defender. Yeah we already knew this."

That statement simply wasn't true. He was literally elite at it, near best in the league, plus best % conversion at the rim, all year, against many good defenders that of course by now, no scheming in playoffs needed to know the book on how best to stop him. And as much difficulty as he was having, he was still getting it done better than most everyone else the guy was including in the purpose for his article. It will be interesting to see how well Fox, Castle and Harper do at the same thing against OKC, albeit with their whole team available, whereas AR was not playing alongside Luka, which would certainly have helped by him not being primary focus #1 by the defense.

 

I appreciate the time,effort and sincerity of your post.i understand the analytics are in his favor and yeah I concede he gets to the rim. He also has struggled against the top teams in the playoffs both things can be true.I don’t hate AR I’m actually happy to have him on the team . My concern is long term.I think we all understand what this team needs but who on the current team will have to go to make that happen.
I’m concerned that now they will be treading water at that point.I only suggest trading him because he is the one that will bring the most in return while keeping most of the team intact.I understand that is also a risk

 

What bothers me is the bickering. Trying to force people to go get their quoted truth or pulling up old posts to prove people are full of lies.

First off, people change their minds, second off, so what if they were wrong. I would argue that guys like abeer and svtr are long time contributors who bring in a lot of good ideas, whether I agree with them or not, they always have a good attitude and are not trying to big time us with their superior knowledge. If they are actually wrong sometimes, who cares. Even Kobe Bryant was wrong once in awhile. Everyone is. I don't want to see people around here being know it all sports bullies who drag everyone through the mud because they disagree with their take. I would bet that alot of these guys would have bagged on Jerry West after his rookie season, I am more than sure they would have bagged on Kobe for his first couple of years. I really have no desire to discuss much of anything with people who are simply trying too hard to prove their narrow points.

Stating any point or idea is fine, I will be interested. Forcing it down our throats and being a jerk about it, then I am out.

 

For me it needs to be accurate logical and fair and not move the goal posts on any particular specific / back and forth issue being discussed.

 

Continue playing the victim and repeating the same thing ad nauseam.

 

Straw manning I never claimed such.you shouldn’t be so dependent on my words to have a good time here

 

I think a lot of Reaves’ issues work out with Luka. First of all, Luka has to go against the best defenders and the starting unit. Reaves will run more of the bench time and go against weaker defenders.

Secondly, it’s easier to attack off a second action than a first. Thirdly, it helps having someone who draws so much gravity, meaning you play only 1 on 1. So I think offensively, Reaves should be fine.

Defensively he has improved from a set half court position. It’s just when he is defending in space that things get a little difficult. But having an improved wing that can defend 1-3 would really help here too.

 

I assure you my intent is not to be a jerk.I understand that I may come off as arrogant because of my unyielding confidence.

 

You got me. My entire LB experience is dependent on you. Unyielding confidence and delusions of grandeur. Such strong contributions here.

 

Unyielding confidence yes.Delusions of grandeur is more straw manning.If you don’t like the bear why do keep poking him?

 

I think the lines just get blurred a bit in all of the Austin debate mainly because he holds the cards and we really can't afford to just let him walk. We'd be creating a huge hole and then be left trying to trade for a guy to give us much of the same thing. There's also a real possibility any replacement we brought in would be even more expensive while not necessarily replacing what Austin's production.

That's not even touching on the clear positive relationship him and Luka have right now.

I also personally can't see him agreeing to a sign and trade so any trade talk to me is really looking ahead at next year. Its tough to project on that as we will surely look much different next season than we do now.

Better to lock him in and try to build around him and Luka.

It's really hard for me to see an improved team for us next year that does not have Austin on it.