Rob Pelinka Discussion: President Of BBall Ops + GM

Irwin is constantly bashing Pelinka. He wrote today that Pelinka also ambushed Vogel lol
I would take it with a pinch of salt

 

Sure. You never quite get the full story with any report.

 

whoa...what's irwin's deal with rob? he probably should have retired from his punditry after he spent all year after rob's head before rob made a better trade than anything he should have supposedly been fired for not doing in the months ahead of it.

instead, here he is, a year later, blaming the front office for not building a good enough team. um, what were they supposed to do? magically heal vincent and vando? trade everything for dorian finney smith?

i also love that irwin's so desperate for his angle that he is bringing up magic's exit...as a negative! we stopped doing really dumb s*** (westbrook excluded--which magic TOTALLY would have done, and probably added 8 1sts to it) as soon as magic left. like almost immediately.

this paragraph is pathetic:

just reads like someone reaching for any reason to go after someone else.

whole article, and the only things he can come up with are that ham was a bad hire (VERY CURIOUS TO HEAR WHAT OL' ANTHONY THOUGHT AT THE TIME OF THE HIRE) and our 17th pick wasn't as good as the 18th-20th picks in his rookie year.

thus, we need a new general manager.

irwin needs to stick to breaking leaks. his opinions suck, consistently.

i don't trust us to hire a good coach. but that problem spans more than rob's regime and suggests to me that either ownership or something about the job itself is a problem (you think a gm makes the choice to "lowball"--6 million dollar lowball--a coach by himself?).

rob built a good team this year. the coach sucked, we had injuries, and the whole team's attitude was crap for much of the year, imo. you can't just trade the whole team every year like lebron wants.

btw, the weirdest revelation in that article is that our scouts' top choice in the draft is the one actually underperforming even JHS! holy s***! atlanta should definitely fire their gm for this reason alone, right?

anyway, that little tidbit is what irwin is good for. the rest of this was garbage.

 

Looks like we bet on the AD type 5, being the wave of the future. Then it seems like a lot of teams, went out looking for more decent players with size instead.

At some point, it would be a good idea, to plan on spending more than the vet minimum, and invest in a decent traditional center, that has a good motor and can run the floor.

Myles Turner remains the best fit next to AD IMO. I'd throw a 1st rd pick at Indiana for him. Rui too.

 

why is indiana doing this again?

and i still think that in the playoffs, unless you employ jokic or embiid, teams will win by playing a more mobile center. it's not like the playbook for getting gobert or zubac off the court has changed much. even one slow player against a high powered smallball lineup is doom.

we just need a regular season minutes eater with some bulk (mason plumlee type). as mike says above, two to three short shifts a game from such a player changes a lot for us. most of us were asking for this last summer, and nothing that happened this season changed my mind on it.

with AD, it's good to have one hayes (or wood, i guess) option and one plumlee option.

 

and poorly executed, imo.

 

Haven't had any warm fuzzies for the guy ever since, in spite of what he did as a player.

 

It was definitely a hit piece but it does bring up a broader question that is posed weekly on The Rewatchables podcast that Bill Simmons hosts. And that's "The Vincent Chase Award: Are We Sure This Character Is Actually Good at Their Job?"... Is Rob good at his job? And I'm not sure what the answer to that is. That's not a good answer when you're the Lakers and the goal is 'ship or bust and maximizing the Bron/AD window. I don't think he's awful, but I don't think he's good enough to be the only one calling the shots (unless the Rambii still get a vote...God help us!). I do think he's crafty and can pivot well, that's the biggest praise I can give him.

Since he's taken the wheel, we have a .549 winning percentage. Five years of Bron and AD and only one championship to show for it. He's fired 3 HCs. How many HC firings is allowed by one GM or president of basketball ops? Most don't make it past 3, after that eyes start looking at them as the problem. He and Jeanie love the three star model, which I think is a fool's errand. Pinning Russ on Vogel was s***ty. Literally the least culpable person in the whole mess. Historically he over corrects, he'll see the error he made and shift wheel way too far in the other direction. Old to young. Bigs to vertically challenged. Depth to stars back to depth and reportedly back to star model after this season.

I think he has some big blind spots that are big enough for the decently engaged fan to pick up on. They haven't gone away or gotten smaller, which isn't great.

I know it's a complex situation. Jeanie is NBA poor, so that's a juggling act. He has had to consider Klutch ties and those appeasements, less as time has gone on. So I know he might not get to do it entirely his way for better or worse. I wish we'd fill out empty chairs in the front office. I wish we had an experienced GM to help.

At the end of the day, I want them all gone from top to bottom. Jeanie, Rambii, Rob, Ham, and every member of the medical staff. I know that's not happening anytime soon, but we deserve better than middle of the pack. I want an owner with real money willing to spend it at every level of the organization. For the most valuable team in the league and one of the top 3-5 most valuable teams in sports that is a fair ask from the fan base.

 

If only Elon Musk was a basketball fan… but he’s more concerned of going to Mars rather than the more important things like owning a legacy NBA franchise

 

deep breath...i don't think you can know without being privy to information we won't ever get from an unbiased source, however...

well, three of those were chock-full of injuries to lebron and AD. when we had them both for a playoff run, we went wcf and title. both teams very well built. only the westbrook teams were tire fires from a team building standpoint.

no argument from me here. vogel got a raw deal. but see statement above. vogel had rambis coming to practice and stuff. and while i don't know the full inner power structure of the lakers, i'm pretty sure rob can't unilaterally stop that kind of stuff. much like the westbrook deal wasn't something rob brokered all by himself--like many people with his title get to do.

we haven't seen this last one yet. i'll reserve judgment on the flip flopping allegation until then. and had he not pivoted in those situations, anthony irwin would be chastising him for not doing so.

i'm fairly engaged, and i don't think he does. he knows his job security is about jeanie and lebron. i think he goes against his own instincts sometimes to please them. some of his best moves have been in the face of pressure and opposition from others in his orbit, imo. he caught tons of heat for not mortgaging the future for buddy hield and myles turner. it would have been so easy to do it. i think this is underplayed.

i agree. we definitely need to find a well-connected person to hire as an assistant gm or higher. the mavs hired dennis lindsey, and i think it paid immediate dividends for them. it's a relationships league, and we don't have enough of them. we've sucked at that part of the game for a while, but again--some of this comes from the top, and jeanie likes to keep the circle tight.

i'd like them all to go as well. but oddly enough, if i had to keep one, it would be rob. rambis is a hack and a failure. and we just don't compete financially with the other top franchises.

the irony in everything is that the lakers have the yankees of basketball rep when nothing could be further from the truth. we don't outspend anyone. we've got the brand and a geographical advantage, but that's where the advantages end.

to conclude, i'm not a rob fan or anything. i don't know how one could be, and i actually think stanning for gms is dumb (the daryl morey idolatry is/was cringeworthy on so many levels). i just don't think you can pin our troubles on rob. replacing him would do nothing for us, imo. what's the hottest name out there right now? presti (again)? do you really believe laker fans and ownership would get on board with the slow build stuff that these superstar gms sell other fanbases on? that's baked in job security! this job isn't like other nba gm jobs.

elon musk is the jim buss of the non-basketball world.

 

What a night and day comparison… one is the officially the richest man in the World and the other is worthless

 

jim buss is the richest man in the world?

 

I get it you hate Musk lol but that comparison is ridiculous

 

Yeah, I'm with you on this. Just makes no sense to have mediocre people running one of the best sports franchises in the world.

 

You're right. There's an angle from everyone. If Rob does get fired down the road we'll get an info dump via Jeanie or Rambii of what he did wrong and how it was all his fault. It's a game of blame shifting and dodging any real accountability. That's just the business. But you can point to results and records and he'll be held to account for that at some point because Jeanie will use him as a human shield before taking ownership for her part in this. When we do pivot from him that record or number of championships will be subheading to the article.

Perhaps regular season wear and tear from lack of sufficient depth or players who could pick up the slack played into some of those injuries. I don't think assembling one of the oldest team in the history of the NBA did Bron or AD any favors in 21-22. Just wait till Ariza gets back was a thing. I don't think the 6'4" and under club did them any favors. AD's backup have been a laughingstock since Trezz and Drummond. Definitely not putting all the injuries on those circumstances, some were just fluke injuries (Bron-Hawks). All teams, except last year's Nuggets, have injuries -- it's part of the game. That doesn't warrant the front office getting a free pass for those years, even if anyone buys what Ham spews about role player injuries and how Vando and/or Gabe missing time is more significant than Jimmy Butler missing games. '98 Bulls, Pip played only half the season and his back limited him the entire post-season. 95 Rockets were plagued by injuries. 2010 Lakers. 06 Heat. '18 Warriors. Did some digging, this one was before my time, but the '72 Lakers as well.

I look at it this way: Bron and AD have maybe two more years together. We're not winning it this year. Do they have one more in them? Under the right circumstances and with a bit of luck, yes. But if that duo only ends up with one ring while being two of the top 12 players (at worst...often higher than that) over a seven year run then that is unquestionably a failure. Trip to the WCF is fine and dandy but 10 years from now people will remember who won and likely who they beat in the Finals, not the two runner ups in each conference.

They need to figure out a way to handle their coaches and it needs to be a bible they are consistent with for EVERY hire, not putting this one Rob because we've had awful coaches before he's been here. I hate the entire process. You can't micromanage them how we did Frank and force specific assistants. You can't go cheap like we did with Lue. You don't hire anyone bragging about DVDs like we did with Brown. MDA...f*** off, everyone involved! You don't hire those who you're close with from when they were a player on your daddy's team like we did with Luke and then let them hire their beach volleyball buddies as assistants. You don't hire a former player who you're friendly with when you were growing up hanging around the team like we did with B Scott because maybe he can babysit and keep Kobe happy at the end. Wishful thinking, maybe Rob could find a better way and present that to Jeanie and maybe that could help. I think we should utilize a selection firm who uses facts, not feelings and personal relationships. I am really concerned with the next hire because of the recent salary boom the bigger named coaches have gotten in the past year+. Are we willing to pay a HC a salary that makes your eyes go wide? Cause that's the current price for anyone worth hiring. I'm skeptical cause we'd still be paying Ham not to coach the team (Jeanie isn't a fan of paying people they've had to fire). OR do we go cheap again and get another unqualified hack?

So you don't think it was clear this past summer that we needed a big with size who could defend? Or last year a bigger wing who could defend that Pat Bev as a SF wing stopper was an awful idea? We had NINE 6 ft 4 players! That having the 3rd oldest team in NBA history was going to be a problem and relying on a relic of Ariza's corpse to be our two-way wing savior was problematic? Not having 3 point shooters in multiple seasons, we got excited about Quinn Cook. Luckily we got hot at the right time in the playoffs but yikes!

As damning as the blind spots is his inability to have contingency plans or foresight into scenarios that are typical throughout a NBA season. When most of his rosters have been built, they're not constructed with any room for error. Either no one can get hurt or all the vet min signings have to hit or both. Teams are too good and the season can get away from you if you just head into it with the mentality of we'll fix it at the deadline.

I don't understand how Jeanie doesn't see this. She is a smart woman. Look around. Inclusion isn't the best solution anymore. I wonder if Rob would push back on a qualified GM or assistant GM hire, afraid they'd be nipping at his heels.

I mean out of that batch, I'd keep Rob too. But is winning The Biggest Loser really winning? I just don't want him being the sole basketball decision maker. I want a Myers or Ujiri (or similar) working alongside him.

Yeah, the best thing we have going for us is the off-court endorsement opportunities that are afforded to players. It can launch them internationally. Does anyone think Reaves would have an international shoe deal if he played in Detroit?

 

i don't necessarily agree with everything, but i agree with a lot of it, but two things:

you mean the year before? because big wing defenders wasn't our problem this year. they got hurt, and we still had some. the year before, none were available with what we had to offer, imo. we went over that a bunch of times, as i recall. people were pining for tj warren.

they're not accepting that job. i want a lower profile long-time pro next to him, though.

 

Yeah, I didn't break up the annual timeline clear enough with the issue for that particular summer. Those aren't all from one summer, just the bevy of issues he's encountered throughout the off-seasons that he's been employed that I thought were flashing neon lights.

This past off-season my biggest gripe was a defensive big man who could eat some minutes. And I guarantee if he knew CW would've been there that late into FA we wouldn't have double dipped with two twig bigs...but he was and we did and here we are.

They're definitely not taking that job with the infrastructure how it is, but as a top sports organization in the country, THAT is the kind of move you make. Jeanie can't afford them, Rambis would C Bags Pride their a** and they'd go missing, Rob would be very uncomfortable and Rich Paul/Bron would have notes.

 

I’m in agreement that our ownership group is awful- really bad in comparison to what we had before.
I used to think Jeanie was smart, until I found out that she’s loyal to a fault- she’s incapable of making the tough decisions based on employee performance.
She’s never going to bring in the right people because she’s never going to fire her friends, the Rambii.
Rob’s biggest issue is that he took this job without enough positive NBA connections. Maybe the smoke regarding “everyone around the League in a Front Office role hates Rob” is accurate?
I don’t see how this group could have done a worse job with their coaching hires over the years and it seems like they will just have to “luck into” their next good one.
At least the young Buss’ have done an excellent job with the scouting department.

 

What if Mars is outside the firmament, and he knows it, and SpaceX is a scam?



does that mean he's a good guy, or a bad guy playing a good guy part?

People who aren't conspiracy theorists miss out on some good times, I tell ya